"Man, I told you he was good."

[fan_elune]

This whole post is majorly SPOILERIFIC in a Doctor Who finale, Doomsday kind of way.

Typed as I watched.

...yes, they're Daleks. So what?

Not the best acting, Jackie.

Cybermen will remove sexuality! No way Jose!

Oh, don't go and die, purple shirt and tie guy. You're into purple! Thus, I like you. ...yeeouch.

Oh, Rose clinging to Mickey! Heh.

Music's good. Probably a bit over the top, but good.

I like Mickey, he's a nice middle ground between old!Mickey and Ricky.

Oh, Doctor. To know what's going through his mind as he sees the Daleks.

Ha! Of course the Daleks would not unite with you, Cyberfilth.

"You are better at dying"? Ha! The Daleks have snark.

Aha! Of course they're scared! The oncoming storm!

So, y'all think they'll get upgraded? TW-gal and Jackie?

Hope! That's Jacky-boy, intit? YAY! Now go find Mickey! Jake/Mickey OTP! Ahem.

Yay for Jackie running, too. Anybody would be running.

Oh Jake's accent! (You'd missed me squeeing at his accent, hadn't you. Admit it.)

Oh, Pete... Pete! What's up. You can't - he's needed!

Harriet! Heee! Love that mention of her.

Ha! I love him. "Off we go, then!" So him.

ROSE DON'T. ...so she remembers? She knows that Jack's alive. Why the fuck did they not go back for him. Serious-the-fuck-ly. No excuse. ...and she's on crack again!

SONIC SCREWDRIVER WOOHOO! Opening doors and putting up shelves.

Go Mickey! Come on, Mickey, come on! ...oh, brilliant, he stumbled.

Ha! Doctor/Mickey smooch!

...and the way Mickey's looking at the Doctor. Aw. He's like, "yes, that's the one."

Yay Pete and Jackie!

Love that he repeatedly stumbled and fell. Heroes never fall. But the Doctor does. Yay!

Thank you Jake. Because yes, lift, good idea. At least one of them has something resembling brains.

A prison, fuck, and also, good one. The fact that it's a prison, I mean.

"Man, I told you he was good." = OTP moment. (And can totally be read as slashy, too. Just sayin'.)

...how exactly did TW-gal manage to regain her individuality inside the Cybersuit? What? How did that happen? Did I miss something?

"Emergency temporal shift"? Did one escape? Is it the Black one?

If she's going into the void, they're so going to get her back at some point. It's Sirius behind the veil all over again. Oh? Oh. Pete. *cuddles* *hard* How did he pull that off? Seriously, that's so deus ex machina. Russell Russell Russell.

Oh, Ten. ...and now you need to move on. No, seriously. Maybe Jack can arrive? One can always hope.

I'm bored.

...is she in therapy? Who is she talking to?

WHERE IS JACKY-BOY. Did they break up on account of Rose?

"Burning up a sun just to say goodbye." That's lovely.

Bad Wolf Bay. Ha! And "Dalek?" was exactly my thought.

THE BABY? ...oh. Good. I was worried for a moment that she was back with Mickey. She can't be, since he's with Jake. Just sayin'.

It's good acting, Billie, but... I just can't care.

GOOD. I was hoping it'd power down before he could say it. OH DOCTOR. The Doctor crying is just wrong. In such a beautiful way.

And the music is really, seriously too much.

Ha! I like the WTF ending. EXCEPT FOR THE PART WHERE IT'S SERIOUSLY MISSING IN THE JACK DEPARTMENT.


And now for actual thoughts.

That was highly disappointing. First off, where is the breakdown? Second off, where is Jack? Third off, where are the tears I'm guessing Russell was hoping to get out of me? Fourth off, where's more on the Time War? Fifth off, where's the finale-worthy plot?

1) Seriously. They spent the whole season building this up? Where is the Doctor breaking down. Where is their arrogance getting them into trouble. Where is the big mistake he or she should seriously have made by now. It's like hubris building up into nothing, and that's bad. I've defended Russell against so many accusations characterisation-wise, because I thought it was all for a greater purpose.

2) Okay, so I was sort of resigned to not seeing Jack, but I couldn't help hoping, right? But this goes back to the same issue as before, me expecting them to be building up to something big. Because if I wanted to see Jack all that much - well, yes, okay, it was partly to squee and marvel and love. But also? Because if anybody could put the Doctor back in his place it would be Jack. It clicks so perfectly in my head, the way it could go down. But there was no need for Jack, since there was no need to put the Doctor back in his place.

3) Not a single tear shone in my eyes. I like that they didn't actually kill Rose, that she was just being super emo. And at the same time, I hate that they didn't actually kill Rose. I like that they didn't, because everybody knew they would. But a well-done, played-down death would've been so perfect, and would've surely made the Doctor break down, and yes it all comes back to that, we need a breakdown. Maybe they're just taking their time, and are planning for it later, but... god. This was so disappointing. The goodbye scene was brilliantly acted, and maybe it's because I cried every tear in my body last night over Grey's, I don't know, but this just seriously fell short. Because their arrogance and their on-crack-ness have left me on the outside of all their private jokes, on the outside of their relationship, and I could not care. (I miss Nine. The "Bad Wolf" moment? LOVE. It was like a little bit of Nine shining through Ten's smile.)

4) You give me Daleks, I can't help but hope for more info on the Time War. They've kept us in the dark for so long, and Ten's "and maybe one day I'll come to terms with it," or however he put it, only served to finally put in words what we already knew. That he's haunted by it, and that he's far from got over it, and the thought that a Time Lord, looking to live a whiiiile longer yet, would say "maybe" about getting over something, when he potentially has so much time to do it in? Well, yeah. It means the world. But we knew all that already, the acting was good enough. ...yes, we're back to me wanting the breakdown. Hmpf. Because the breakdown, had it happened, would've had to be related to his repressed feelings over the Time War.

5) Honestly. I can't defend Russell honestly without being aware of his flaws, and plot has never been his strong point. He also likes his epic endings, and the whole "whole family on this deserted beach in Norway, the Tylers reunited" thing? Very RTD. (For the record, though? I hate that Mickey's suddenly back to Rose's... guy friend thing. Liked them so much better a world apart.) My point! My point is that the plot SUCKED MAJOR ASS. I was not holding my breath in the slightest. How sad is that? Last week's cliffhanger had me on the edge of my seat, and this? Not so much. I kept waiting for the story to really start, really kick in, and suddenly it was already Cheap Resolution Time. I truly wish they made longer stories, could develop things more. Or had Steven Moffat write all their two-parters. Honestly, last year's ending two-parter was so much better, even though it used even worse of a deus ex machina than Pete was. At least the deus ex machina was so huge it almost mocked itself, with Rose as an actual goddess figure, momentarily.

I'm just... disappointed. Sorry. And sixth off, I think, is where is Nine?

6) I miss Nine. I love David Tennant, I always said he could pull off a brilliant Doctor, and he does, but he doesn't pull off a Doctor I can LOVE. Not really. I love him superficially. I don't love him like I should, and it fills me with sadness. Nine, I miss Nine so much, no matter how much I try to like Ten.

Can we get Torchwood now?

Comments

[fan-elune.livejournal.com]

Hey! I am getting used to it, and strongly encourage it in fact. (And it didn't sound like flames to me!)

It's not just about family, though. Family's just what chessy!Russell uses to symbolise her life. A life on earth (no matter what earth), a life lived as a human, not as a time traveller. A real life. And that's how, to me, the choice of staying with the Doctor, while being very understandable, and very human, is also very childlike. But we've seen her spend a whole season unlearning everything Nine might've taught her, so I'm absolutely not surprised that she made that choice. Ten has made her into the person that would make that choice.

Anyway, that's my own two cents on the choice. Can we get Jack already?

[cerulean-blu.livejournal.com]

Hum, I see your point. And it's probably just me projecting actually ;-) (me, grow up? wasat?). Childlike perhaps. I can't help but think that choosing between an everyday-work-home-sleep "real life" and the chance to see everything and do a lot of good in the process (time-travelling sexiness notwithstanding), well, there's no contest really. But maybe that's just me not being overtly fond of "real life" in the first place either.

As for hubris, I don't quite see it, but then I'm not really Old Skool either. I mean, yes, the Doctor tends to show off, prancing around and the lot, and he does rubs everyones' face in it all the time occasionally. But at the end of the day, he *is* the higher authority, and the choices I've seen him made were for the greater good. Maybe he does know what's best, if he can see all just don't go lord over everybody, Ten! You know you're right, I know you're right, let's leave it at that
Having said that, there's been a couple of times when he almost put Rose above the universe, so maybe not. Did you notice in Doomsday when he tells Pete about Jackie being alive in the parallel universe and how he didn't have to be alone? How Pete turned around and said there where more important things at stake? Maybe I'm reading too much into, but I swear there was a beat there where Ten was like "is there?". I like the Doctor because he's a flawed hero, too, and that's the best kind.

Wow, here I went again. Can you tell I *cannot* concentrate at work today? *g*

[fan-elune.livejournal.com]

But the thing is - I don't feel like it was a question of "having a life" vs. "helping the world out." I feel like it was family vs. the Doctor. And that's what makes me go, childlike. Because throughout this season, it didn't feel like Rose's main priority, or the Doctor's, was doing good. It felt like it was having fun. I blame the on-crackness. Tooth & Claw has traumatised me, yes.

But he isn't, the higher authority. Nobody can be, and like you say, he's flawed. There is no higher authority. That is hubris, as far as I'm concerned, and as a Whedonite I want to see his flaws get back to bite him in the lovely arse. I mean, seriously. If he doesn't learn, how can I love him? He needs to evolve. He hasn't, for a whole season, has he? I'm pining for that. That's why I want a breakdown! *pines*

[cerulean-blu.livejournal.com]

bite him in the lovely arse
OK, firstly, that sentence completely derailed my train of thoughts. *g*

I think what I meant was, I wasn't making a distinction between "having a life" and "helping out the world". Both are lives. It's like you telling me either you can stay where you are, 9-5 job/2.3kids/picket-fence or you can work for whatever world organisation, travel and save lives while you're at it. So I did not express myself properly.

But I do agree with what you just said. It did feel like they were having a bit too much fun. That is to say, they were probably a bit too wrapped up in each other to maybe go straight to the "doing good" stuff. And I'd say he got a pretty good punch with Rose being torn from him, although I doubt we'll see more breaking down than the emo tears. I think it's the nature of the character (or at the very least Ten) to internalise his real emotions a lot, which is why he's so mercurial (as in, internalise, internalise then go Vinny Jones on your ass). From that to say that he'll learn one day, hum, who (*snorts*) knows. Maybe that was the whole point of taking Rose away, and they'll have him change after that. Mind you, I do think that part of his hubris as you call it, is also a defence mechanism, something to hide behind.

OMG somebody in this building has a ringtone just like the one in 24's CTU, that was ood

(And I'm not doing you a whatever, I'm just having a Captain Jack drool fest ;-)

[fan-elune.livejournal.com]

Hee! The lovely arse is more than enough to derail a fucking train, let alone a few thoughts.

No, I hear you, but there's a middle ground. She's not exactly going for a 9-5 job, is she? She's still going to do good, at Torchwood. Know what I mean?

Yeah, I don't think he'll break down any more than the tear, which was dear RTD sososo lovely. Very beautiful moment. And yes, the internalising is exactly what he does, even more so than Nine did. Nine was much more in touch with his emotions, which is why Nine came off as neurotic, and Ten comes off as near psychotic the mercurialism is so strong. We'll see how they do next season. You know you love someone well when you can criticise them, right? I love Russell. *grins*

Heee! Now that's what I want for my ringtone.

(I'm all for drooling. *drools*)

[cerulean-blu.livejournal.com]

Hee! The lovely arse is more than enough to derail a fucking train, let alone a few thoughts. *sporfle* oooh the coffee only just missed the keyboard. Thanks. *g*

Yes, yes, yes, middle ground! I think the argument's not whether she should or not stay with the Doctor, but rather whether she would stay with him for the right reasons (as in, loving him vs the greater good). And I don't think that, even if she's known she could save the world via Torchwood, she'd have chosen that over having fun with the doctor (and his lovely arse), at least at first. Mind you, point me to a human who would go for the greater good rather than a selfish choice, especially in the heat of the moment. That's why hindsight is always 20/20.

Now that I'm done hurling cliches at you, you wanna come worship at my RTD altar when I'm done building it? I'll save you a spot at the front *bg*

Too right about Nine and Ten, too. *nods, nods*

[randomling]

Hmm - wanted to throw in a random comment here. Mostly that while the Doctor is flawed, very flawed, in different ways in different incarnations (Ten: too romantic to see the big picture; Five: too compassionate to make the hard choices; Six: too angry; Nine: too guilty; Seven: too absorbed in the big picture to read the human consequences of what he was doing; etc), he also is the higher authority in so many ways. Before the Time Lords were gone, he had the wisdom he got from his people and the compassion he got from his human friends, and he used them both. Now he's the last Time Lord, the last of a race whose job it was to regulate the universe, and he's trying to do single-handedly a duty once taken care of by a whole planet full of people. Because he's the only one left with the wisdom, knowledge and power to do it.

Then again I'm coming from a very different perspective from either of you - I grew up with the Doctor, he's my childhood (and adulthood!) hero, and he's just always had that authority. The power to do good and make the right choices. With a little help from his friends, maybe.

[fan-elune.livejournal.com]

Precisely. We all have that power. And to take upon himself the job that all of his people was doing is 1) part of what's crushing him because honestly, who can shoulder that kind of burden, 2) extremely arrogant. The reasoning doesn't hold. They were a whole race, I don't know how many individuals, all with their flaws and virtues and strong points, and he only is the one individual. And if he truly thinks that he can do it, then why not wonder: what happens when he is gone? If that really is his ambition, and it's a noble one, what he should be doing? Is educate others.

But, yeah, I'm coming at this, again, with a Whedonian perspective. Joss never hesitated to question Buffy's right to be the One, for instance. And when he didn't or made her too right, I was right there complaining, too. ...okay so maybe I do that a lot. But I do that with much love!

[randomling]

Yup, the Doctor's arrogant as all hell - always has been - it's usually justified, though, because basically he does know what he's doing. Yes, sometimes the burden is so heavy it crushes him and even his friends. But that's how it is.

And he does wonder and has wondered who will succeed him. He's tried several times to turn his companions into "little Doctors" - Ace, Leela, even Captain Jack to a certain extent, plus there are book companions he tried it with - but it never quite works. Because they're human, they don't have the Time Lord training or upbringing, and now they never can (years and years of academic schooling? Is a bit beyond what the Doctor can provide in the TARDIS...).

The Doctor may or may not have the right. But there's no one else. There just isn't. So what other choice has he got?

(Does that sound flame-y? It's not meant to, but it's late and I'm hot...)

[fan-elune.livejournal.com]

Heh, I know better than to think you'd flame me. Just because we disagree... besides, I'm always learning more about the Doctor with you, given how you have a whole different perspective on him!

[cerulean-blu.livejournal.com]

See, now, I'm all new to Doctor Who, but I did accept that right off the bat, that it was his legacy to be higher authority (despite his flaws). It's really nice to learn about other Doctors too, so thanks. I have so many questions about his past, sometimes, when I watch these eps.

[fan-elune.livejournal.com]

Heh! My hindsight is way not 20/20. :p But yes, yes. I'm not saying her decision wasn't human. And it's a decision that's very true to her, and I'd have minded it less last year. It's really the Ten-and-Rose dynamics, or attitude maybe, that's rubbed me the wrong way the whole of this season.

...does worship mean I can't question and criticise him? *sticks tongue out* You watched QaF yet?

[cerulean-blu.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, no, there'll be a schedule, plenty of room for the critising ;-)

Well, believe it or not, I've only seen the first ep so far (omg, teh smut x_x). My parents came over for my graduation last week and I got traumatised. And then got traumatised again this weekend, although in a good way. I'll get there.